Musical Nirvana - Interview with Pt Nikhil Banerjee

Interviews with Pt Nikhil Banerjee - Pg 2

Interview by Ira Landgarten at New York (1986)
Reproduced here for educational purposes only

Had you already heard Allauddin Khan?

Yes, earlier.

So at that stage in your life, you were fully committed to pursue a music career?

Yes, and all credit must go to my father. When I was about 9 or 10 years old, one day my father told me, "Look at us, we are really amateur musicians. If you really want to learn this music, you must take it as a profession, otherwise it will be useless." But I can remember when he said this, and my grandfather and all other family members objected very strongly! They scolded my father saying, "The future of this boy will be completely ruined!" Another thing you must know: about 40 or 50 years back in India, music was not considered a very good thing. Let me tell you another short history of this thing. During the Moghul Dynasty, in the late 17th century, Aurangzeb, the last Emperor, prohibited music strictly, and there was an order from the king that anybody practicing music will be killed immediately! This was a black period in the history of Indian music, you can say. During his time, music was completely prohibited in India, and the culture and music of India must be grateful to the prostitute class -prostitute is not the correct word- they were called "baijis." They were the people who actually kept this art alive when it went underground during Aurangzeb's reign. The baiji class preserved the music underground, and the result was that afterwards in educated and cultured families, the attitude was, "Music, you can learn it, just learn it but don't take it as a profession." Because if you take it as a profession, you'll have to keep some sort of close contact with this prostitute baiji class, naturally your character will be spotted. And as I was from a priest class, therefore it was forbidden for anyone from an educated, cultured family to take music professionally.

Yet the origins of dhrupad were temple worship, and music was considered a spiritual path...

Of course, but that is another side. You know, this is a very important thing for Westerners to understand about Indian music: Indian music is based on spiritualism, that is the first word, you must keep it in your mind. Many people misunderstand and think it's got something to do with religion, no, absolutely no! Nothing to do with religion, but spiritualism. Indian music was practiced and learned to know the Supreme Truth. Mirabai, Tyagaraja from the South, Haridas Swami, Baiju all these great composers and musicians were wandering saints; they never came into society nor performed in society. This is the history of Indian music, and this music was learned and it was practiced in search of truth. This is the background of Indian classical music; you must keep it in your mind always. In the temples, this music was sung every day in front of the statues, the idols. In Mathura-Brindaban, the home of dhrupad, this music is still sung. Another technical point I can tell you here: you know dhrupad has got four parts: asthai, antara, sanchari and abhog. But if you go to Mathura-Brindaban, they have got seven parts, and you cannot deny they are the originals. After the evening worship of the idols, they sing in a group, purely based on rag and purely dhrupad with seven parts. If you really want to hear that, you've got to go there to the temple. Our music was either practiced by the wandering saints or it was in the temple. This is the background of Indian classical music, it was coming like that for many thousands of years. Then, during the Muslim invasion of India in the 12th century, the music was composed and was sung in front of the kings to entertain. Then the passion came in our music; actually it was not there before. Passion and the worship of kings - the king is next to god- the wording of many old compositions you'll see, are all in praise of the king. And the king used to give orders, "Do this, do that." So music became part of entertainment after the Muslim invasions, before that no, absolutely no. Old compositions are all about Lord Krishna and Radha, their eternal love, all are based on this love affair, but when the Muslim invasion started, then it took a dramatic change.

From the 12th century, Indian classical music was bifurcated -one went to the North, one went to the South. The South preserved this rigid orthodoxy; it's still a long argument, but they claim that they have maintained the purity of Indian classical music. If you keep something from any touch of the outside world, perhaps that sanctity is there, but it is like stagnant water. That broadness doesn't come, whereas in North Indian music, after so many invasions from Persia, Greece, Afghanistan, and so many other places, it was enriched with different combinations. That is one of the reasons why this music being so old still has got its power, whereas in Japan, China, Korea, and all these places with old civilizations, it has almost dried out. The North Indian music is always flowing, and still today also it is flowing very nicely, like "a rolling stone gathers no moss." It is very crystalline and still full of power. Indian musicians have heard many other kinds of music and have tried to take something from other music also, and they're still seeking. That's a very good point, I think. I like this. Unless you take some ideas from different cultures or different people, how can you really enrich your own ideas? If you do not expand, that means death and stagnation. So what happened to our South Indian music is really a great point to think about. Nowadays, there are many great musicians, of course, but many of them are trying to take something from North Indian music. But perhaps you know many great musicians who often visit the U.S. are not accepted there in South India. Why? Because they have gone to the West, because they have heard other music; it's a very orthodox style. However, in North Indian music that constant flow is there.

Let's get back now to 1947, when Birendra Kishore Roy Chowdhury introduced you to Baba (Allauddin Khan); what was your first meeting with him like?

(Laughs) That was another story, big story! First, actually he used to give concerts 3 or 4 times a year in Calcutta music festivals. Each time I used to go and hear him. He used to stay in a hotel, and every day, I used to go there, every day and so many people were there, it was a big crowd. All the time he was surrounded by so many big, rich people, great musicians, and I was a boy about 14 -15 years old, nobody took care of me or noticed. So every day I used to sit there, I used to listen to their conversations, and then I used to come back. Then after so many days, one day he just called me, there were very few people in the room, he just called me and said, "I am watching you. Every day you come, and after some time when everybody leaves this room, you go back. Why do you come to me? What for?" He was a man of very, very strict principle: "So long you are alive, you must practice." This is simple, a very simple thing; no time to talk, no time to sleep, no time to eat -if you practice 24 hours a day, he will be happy! And actually, he was that type of man, he knew only music! He thought, "You have come to this world, you have nothing else to do except practice! Don't waste a single moment chatting and talking!" He was a man of extremely strict principle! So when he called me, he said, "Why do you come to me?" Then actually, I cried, I touched his feet and said, "Please, if you don't teach me, I will just commit suicide! Because I don't like to hear any other music!" He just threw me away! He said, "Don't disturb me any more! I am an old man, I have got no energy left in me to teach any other students." Because Ali Akbar Khan is there, Ravi Shankar is there, his daughter Annapurna, Pannalal Ghosh, Timir Baran- whomever it may be, if he accepts someone as a student, he will make him into something. I hadn't heard or seen anybody like that! Anything! If he picks up anything, he will do something. He was that type of man. So he told me, "I have created all these students, I have no more energy left. I cannot aford such energy, and I have got no time; I want peace now, I want to take rest, I want to relax. I am about 70 now, so don't disturb me any more, just leave me alone." But I cried and cried and said, "I won't leave you until, unless you tell me something." He also kicked me that time! However, I used to broadcast for All-India Radio, Calcutta, then he thought and said, "Okay. I have got no time today, and tomorrow I am leaving Calcutta, when is your next radio program? You write to me, and I will hear it in Maihar." And that I did; I wrote him that on such-and-such day, I am going to play. After that, he wrote me a very nice letter; he told me, the first line was, "I have heard your program, what you have played was rubbish! Hopeless things! Top to bottom, it was full of - nothing was correct! Very incorrect rag! Everything is incorrect! You don't know where to put your ornaments - you have put bangles on your hair, hairpins on your feet!" Something like that; it was a very nice letter! "However, this much I can tell, you have got a hidden power in you - that thing has to be nurtured. So I am happy, and if you like to come, you are welcome." Naturally, the next day I just left for Maihar.

Interview - Pg 1

Interview - Pg 3