Musical Nirvana - Interview with Pt Nikhil Banerjee

Interviews with Pt Nikhil Banerjee - Pg 3

Interview by Ira Landgarten at New York (1986)
Reproduced here for educational purposes only

So you became part of the household there?

Right, that was the old system, you have to stay with your teacher like one of the family.

What was life like for you during that period?

You have to just practice, forget the whole world! That training period is very, very rigorous and very strict. You have got no time for ANYTHING! Just practice, just practice 14 hours a day minimum, just practice! And all the time, he's giving you guidance. It's not like you come to me from 7 to 8 o'clock, one hour teaching, it is not that - 24 hours the guidance is there! You know this is a very great question: who is guru, and what is guru? I cannot be a guru, because, you know there is an old story: a person went to a great spiritual man, he was suffering from some disease, and that great saint told him, "You come to me after seven days, then I will tell you some medicine." After seven days, the student again went to him, then he said, "Don't take salt. You completely forget about salt, you must not touch salt again." Then the student said, "Excuse me if I ask one question, why for this simple medicine, you said to come after seven days?" The teacher replied, "These seven days, I didn't take salt." So this is the thing: if I say something to you, if I don't follow that thing - I must know the result and the reaction. This is called the teacher, the guru. Guru can see you from the inside, he can channelize you - which way is suitable to you. I've been asked, "You and Ravi Shankar, being disciples from the same person, why are both your styles and approaches to music different?" This is because my teacher understood. The first time when I went to Maihar, the first thing my teacher said, "I will channelize you in a different way, I will put you in a different way than Ravi Shankar. There will be no similarity." Of course, the basis is the same, about the rag and how we will handle the treatment of the rag - it is all the same, but the exposition is different, the style is different. Now I can understand, but at that time, I couldn't understand. The first thing he said, "I will take a different way for you. Your way will be just completely different from Ravi Shankar." Because he could understand. Now I can follow that my approach to music is completely different than Ravi Shankar's - everybody's got a different approach because the level of mind, the line of thinking is different. I can still remember he gave me these compositions - the first time I was so astonished, I thought it was impossible for me to play! Completely different style, completely different! I was not acquainted with that sort of thing. He said, "This is your way, you must follow this way. This is the style for you; it suits your mind." Now I can understand, but at that time, I was so bewildered, I said, "What is this? It is a completely different thing for me, I won't be able to play!" He just told me, "If you can't play, just leave me alone and go back to Calcutta now!" However, what I want to say is that guru can see you, whether you believe it or not, from his experience and maturity. Perhaps you have seen a good guru, and if you havenÍt seen one, then I really feel pity. Guru doesn't just mean teaching music; guru actually molds you, your everything, each step, how you behave, how you react. Each step he'll follow you, guide you, he'll see you, he'll watch you from a distance. It's a very vast subject, guru, who is guru. I cannot be a guru, because I am not so much truthful to myself, that means I don't always do what I say. But guru is something else; if guru says, "Practice 16 hours today," that means he has practiced, he knows the result. What you should practice, what will suit your temperament, your emotions, that he can understand just by watching you, your movement, your behavior, your reactions. Only guru can know because he's so pure from inside. Oh, yes, to find a real guru is a blessing!

Ho, ho, ho! One day he told me, "Don't play alap; alap is not meant for you now. When you'll be 40 years old, when your nerves and everything will calm down, because alap is such a thing, your mind and concentration - until you calm down very peacefully to that level, you cannot play alap! Alap means that each note you'll have to feel it in your mind! Each note! And it will take a long time." Actually, alap is taught at the last stage. In the beginning, you just practice different scales, different rhythmic patterns, different techniques for at least 20 years. You learn different compositions, you play so many things, but alap will be taught at the last stage. But I was so tired - one day I was just playing in my room, I closed the door, and I was playing a little alap. Suddenly, he came to my room and opened the door and said, "Just pack up and go back to Calcutta! I will not teach you any more!" However, there was a long hassle, he was so obstinate, he wouldn't hear a single word. "Just pack up and go! I won't hear a single word from you!" He was a very, very strict man. He told me not to play alap, but I was so tired, tired of playing these techniques and scales - I was playing very softly, as if I didn't hear him tell me not to play alap. Now I understand, but at that age - he was very, very strict!

I know he had a legendary temper; did he ever actually lose his temper with you and scold or beat you?

Yes, yes, he has done it to everybody. Even, you know, he was a court musician of Maihar, a small state, he used to teach the king old dhrupad compositions, and one day, he actually threw the tabla hammer at him, at the king! He was such a man, he knew only music, nothing else! If you make any mistake, naturally as a human being, how could it be possible each time to immediately pick up whatever he says? Sometimes, because of lack of concentration or something. But he will not repeat anything twice or thrice! The first time he sang, you had to pick it up! If you said, "Sorry, I have missed that," he will just immediately kick you! He was an extremely strict man! But besides all these things, can you tell me in the history of Indian classical music any great musician who has created so many good students? No other than Allauddin Khansahib; he's the only person in the history of Indian classical music to produce great exponents like Ali Akbar Khansahib, Ravi Shankar, Annapurna-devi, Pannalal Ghosh, Timir Baran, all these great musicians and each one is top in their field. He was such a great man. And as he was not a traditional musician, he was completely different than any other traditional gharana musicians. He used to say, "Whatever I have learned, I am ready to give you. If you've got the power, just pick it up from me." But all his students will know it was so difficult. He was so vast - how much you can learn. He was exceptionally great, exceptionally great, but with very, very strong and strict discipline. Nowadays, it's hard to imagine! During your training period, you're not supposed to go to movies, not supposed to read any books, you have hardly energy left for any other activities! Practice starts from four o'clock in the morning, and it ends at eleven oÍclock at night. There is a little break for breakfast, a little break for lunch, a little for dinner, a little for washing and other things, but we actually played from four o'clock in the morning till eleven o'clock at night. So hardly any energy was left.

How could your fingers manage that?

Oh, oh, no! When I first went there, it happened to everybody - your whole hand, your fingers were cut and sewn up! And he used to tell us, "As long as you are alive, you have to practice! If you die, I'll be happy! Better you die, but as long as you're alive, you'll have to practice, you cannot stop!" But now you can see how much love was there. Why he did all these things, why the strictness was there - because he used to love me! He used to think that, "Now you must do something! As you have taken this subject, you cannot leave this, you must do, you must leave behind some mark!" The training period was very, very rigorous - and I myself think even the world is changing, this country is so advanced, but there is no second way. Really, if you want to play music or anything, you'll have to forget the world at least for four or five years and just concentrate on music. You play music, you think music, dream music, eat music - just live in music! That's all! I think there is no other way, if you really want to become a great musician. It's not only Indian music, it's everywhere, all over the world.

Interview - Pg 2

Interview - Pg 4