Musical Nirvana - Interview with Pt Nikhil Banerjee

Interviews with Pt Nikhil Banerjee - Pg 4

Interview by Ira Landgarten at New York (1986)
Reproduced here for educational purposes only

Precisely how long did you stay with Baba in Maihar?

About five years, but naturally from 1947 onwards till his death, all the time I was - I was giving concerts, but all the time, whenever I had the chance. He was such a person, suppose I would meet him on the train, on the road, on the bus, anywhere, immediately he would talk about music! "Do you know this thing? Do you know that thing? How it comes, just see. Listen." He'll immediately start teaching! Naturally, I was a little advanced at that time. He actually wanted to live in music, always in music. He would never talk about politics, nor talk about how far America is from Maihar - he never knew all these things; he would not talk, he would not listen.

It's been written that after that period of formal training with Baba, you also received guidance from his daughter, Annapurna.

Yes, I still study, you know. Whenever I get time, whenever I go to Bombay for concerts - she lives there - I just go to her. Being the daughter of Allauddin Khansahib, she's also very strict. Whenever I go there, I sit with her, I ask her anything, and she will also tell me. I haven't heard of many people that studied with her - Hariprasad (Chaurasia) mentions her. Hariprasad also learned from Annapurna-devi. She has taught Ravi Shankar also. She's a great, great musician.

Jnan Prakash Ghosh has also written that you had some years of intensive training with Ali Akbar.

Actually, when Baba became very old - Ali Akbar Khansahib also loves me very much; I also stayed with him about four or five years in Bombay and learned from him. One more thing: during that training period, it is just like when a small tree is growing up, right from the seedling. You put some sort of fence around it, so that the bad influence of weeds or crushing is avoided. When it grows up, then you remove the fence. During the training period, you are not supposed to play in front of even your close relatives, and not in front of any outsider, or anybody else except your parents. You are not allowed to listen to any music, anything, and at that time, you'll be completely secluded. You will not hear anything, you will not play in front of anybody. That means he's molding you; the full light and concentration on music and the guidance will be there. He will actually cover you up during the training period. Before I went to Maihar, I used to give concerts here and there, but the moment I reached Maihar he said, "Now from today, everything is stopped!"

Ravi Shankar has said that though Baba played many instruments, sitar was one instrument that he didn't play. Did that have any effect on your technique?

My technique was formed at that stage. In the beginning stage, it was alright, my fingering, placing of the hands, holding the sitar - it was absolutely correct. Mostly, his way of teaching was singing; he used to sing, and we used to follow on our instruments. Sometimes, naturally, we couldn't follow, so technical disadvantage was there, but we were not allowed to ask him. He would immediately say, "Find out your own way. You actually consult your brain and your intellect. Don't ask me." So you just go and think how to tackle this thing, this phrase.

That way helps you develop your own personal approach to music.

Right, right. It develops you, and I think this is the correct way. If everything is taught, then you will be very much influenced and covered up. Your individuality, your personality must grow up along with this music.

How would you summarize Baba's contribution to Indian Classical Music; how did he influence changes in sitar and other instrumental playing styles?

One thing I must say: Baba Allauddin Khansahib has made a great contribution to Indian classical music, especially string instruments. The proof is there - records you can hear from about 40-50 years back of how sitar and sarod used to be played. Hear all these old records „ they used to concentrate only on particular portions, they never used to go beyond that. Previously, there was no alap on sitar; mostly all the phrases and tans used to be played "diri diri" only. There were no sapat tans, there were no long meends and other things. If you don't believe it, listen to records - they are available in India, in Calcutta. Before Ali Akbar Khansahib, nobody used to play sarod like that. I never liked sarod before - with metallic sound and only "diri diri diri diri" only the right hand, no other things. No long meends or other techniques were used. But Baba contributed, because he actually introduced to sitar and sarod the style of sursringar, surbahar and veena. I can tell you in every phrase in our style of playing - students of Allauddin Khansahib - that this has been derived from veena, this is from rabab style, this is from sursringar, this is from surbahar. We have amalgamated all these styles, and now in what we play on sitar, you will see all these phrases. That is why the horizon is bigger than it was before. This is the greatest contribution of Allauddin Khansahib.

Would you say there have been any changes or improvements in sitar construction? Mainly, I will say that Allauddin Khansahib is the person who actually introduced the kharaj (bass) string on sitar. Nobody used to...

Ravi Shankar says that this is something that he created with sitar maker Kanai Lal.

No, no, absolutely wrong! It was Allauddin Khansahib who told that you must put one extra thick string so that you can have your bass sa.

So how does the instrument you have now differ from the type you originally played?

The construction and the shape is a little changed, but because we play these kharaj strings, the shape of the tumba, or gourd, is a little bigger, and the shape is also a little bigger, otherwise you cannot hold the thick strings; it would bend the neck.

Is there an improvement in the string quality available now? What type of music wire do you use? And what gauges do you use?

Yes, we use a little thicker string now, for the tone. I prefer English wire. German wire is a little thinner, and strength-wise, I think English wire is better. The English steel wire is better, but America produces better phosphor bronze strings. I use #4 steel wire for the ma string; that's very heavy. I don't know the gauge measurements of the others; one of my students in California used to give them to me.

Interview - Pg 3

Interview - Pg 5